What God and Men Say
Romans 9:13-24
Rom 9:18  So then He has mercy on whom He desires , and He hardens whom He desires .
Published June 1st, 2012
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This page was automatically converted from a module that was shared prior to the release of Published Pages. Additionally, the arc below was auto-converted from the arc created by the author (which used the old module), and so it is possible there are misplaced logical relationships.
notes 1452680587756 Disclaimer This page was automatically converted from a module that was shared prior to the release of Published Pages. Additionally, the arc below was auto-converted from the arc created by the author (which used the old module), and so it is possible there are misplaced logical relationships.
Notes
2011-11-16 08:32:42
2014-12-10 18:29:39
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires , and He hardens whom He desires . G2309 thel'-o, eth-el'-o Either the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses θελέω theleō ( thel-eh'-o) and ἐθέλέω etheleō ( eth-el-eh'-o ) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138 ; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse ; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations ), that is, choose or prefer Subjective ( adjective) 1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions 2. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric 3. belonging to, proceeding from, or relating to the mind of the thinking subject and not the nature of the object being considered Objective (adjective) 1. not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts 2. not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased 3. of or relating to actual and external phenomena as opposed to thoughts, feelings, etc 4. undistorted by emotion or personal bias 5. medical term (of disease symptoms) perceptible to persons other than the individual affected My thoughts – “It seems then, that here, God’s determination rested upon His subjective feelings and not merely objective facts. My question then is, ‘What are His feelings based on?’ It seems as though His foreknowledge is a sufficient answer. Unlike an objective consideration where others perceive the condition, only the LORD knows certain things before they actually take place. Take Jacob and Esau as an example… before they “ had done good or evil ”, God chose Jacob not based on objective considerations such as his having blonde hair or blue eyes. Neither do we see the LORD basing His choice of Jacob upon his being the older of the brothers, which he was not. Rather, the LORD chose Jacob based on a subjective impulse. Again, what could have influenced this decision which the LORD made to choose Jacob over Esau? I say, ‘foreknowledge seem more than probable.’” Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will ?" G1013 boo'-lay-mah From G1014 ; a resolve: - purpose, will. My thoughts – “Here it seems odd to me. Verse 18 states that the LORD has mercy on whomever he subjectively determines and hardens whomever he subjectively determines (G138) , but here, in this verse the question is asked as to why the LORD still finds fault since no one is able to resist what He objectively determines (G1014) . It is like the author says that God determines Himself to act based upon His subjective feelings but that the hearers of this news will respond by saying, ‘Who can resist when God determines Himself to act based upon objective facts?’ Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make (G4160) me like this," will it? Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make (G4160) from the same lump one vesse l for honor and another for dishonor? My thoughts – “Does the fact that a vessel is made for common use necessarily mean that it is prepared for destruction? More to the point… is a vessel made for common use the same as a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction?” Rom 9:22 What if God, even though willing ( desiring ) to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known , endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared (G2675) for destruction? My thoughts - "God's making of a vessel is not the same as a vessel being prepared for something." Barnes – “This word (G2675) properly means to “restore; to place in order; to render complete; to supply a defect; to fit to, or adapt to, or prepare for. In this place it is a participle, and means those who are suited for or “adapted to” destruction; those whose characters are such as to deserve destruction , or as to make destruction proper. It is a simple declaration that they were in fact suited for it , without making an affirmation about the manner in which they became so. My thought – “It is very important to note that this verse, unlike the proceeding one does NOT say that the LORD “prepared” them for destruction, rather that the vessels of wrath were suited for it i.e. they were deserving of it.” Rom 9:23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy , which He prepare d (G4282) beforehand f or glory , G4282 pro-et-oy-mad'-zo From G4253 and G2090 ; to fit up in advance (literally or figuratively): - ordain before, prepare afore. G2675 kat-ar-tid'-zo From G2596 and a derivative of G739 ; t o complete thoroughly , that is, repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust: My thoughts – “ G4282 in Rom 9:23 could be translated, ‘which He beforehand made ready for glory. G2675 in Rom 9:22 could be translated, ‘vessels of wrath suited for destruction. G4160 is not the thought in verse 22 or 23. The vessels of wrath were NOT made for destruction; rather they were suited for it. Neither were the vessels of mercy made for glory; rather they were fitted for it beforehand i.e. they were made ready for it ahead of time . Eph 2:10 ESV For we are his workmanship, created " in Christ" Jesus for good works, which God prepared (G4282) beforehand , that we should walk in them. My thoughts - We were fitted ahead of time so that we should walk in good works.” Rev 19:7-8 ESV Let us rejoice and exult and give Him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His Bride has made herself ready (G2090) ; (8) it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? My thoughts – “I think this just further drives the apostle's point home. The Jews were not the only people who were beforehand fitted for glory. No, the Gentiles also had been made ready for glory ahead of time.”
10000000095362 95362 Notes 2011-11-16 08:32:42 2014-12-10 18:29:39 Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires , and He hardens whom He desires . G2309 thel'-o, eth-el'-o Either the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses θελέω theleō ( thel-eh'-o) and ἐθέλέω etheleō ( eth-el-eh'-o ) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138 ; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse ; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations ), that is, choose or prefer Subjective ( adjective) 1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions 2. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric 3. belonging to, proceeding from, or relating to the mind of the thinking subject and not the nature of the object being considered Objective (adjective) 1. not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts 2. not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased 3. of or relating to actual and external phenomena as opposed to thoughts, feelings, etc 4. undistorted by emotion or personal bias 5. medical term (of disease symptoms) perceptible to persons other than the individual affected My thoughts – “It seems then, that here, God’s determination rested upon His subjective feelings and not merely objective facts. My question then is, ‘What are His feelings based on?’ It seems as though His foreknowledge is a sufficient answer. Unlike an objective consideration where others perceive the condition, only the LORD knows certain things before they actually take place. Take Jacob and Esau as an example… before they “ had done good or evil ”, God chose Jacob not based on objective considerations such as his having blonde hair or blue eyes. Neither do we see the LORD basing His choice of Jacob upon his being the older of the brothers, which he was not. Rather, the LORD chose Jacob based on a subjective impulse. Again, what could have influenced this decision which the LORD made to choose Jacob over Esau? I say, ‘foreknowledge seem more than probable.’” Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will ?" G1013 boo'-lay-mah From G1014 ; a resolve: - purpose, will. My thoughts – “Here it seems odd to me. Verse 18 states that the LORD has mercy on whomever he subjectively determines and hardens whomever he subjectively determines (G138) , but here, in this verse the question is asked as to why the LORD still finds fault since no one is able to resist what He objectively determines (G1014) . It is like the author says that God determines Himself to act based upon His subjective feelings but that the hearers of this news will respond by saying, ‘Who can resist when God determines Himself to act based upon objective facts?’ Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make (G4160) me like this," will it? Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make (G4160) from the same lump one vesse l for honor and another for dishonor? My thoughts – “Does the fact that a vessel is made for common use necessarily mean that it is prepared for destruction? More to the point… is a vessel made for common use the same as a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction?” Rom 9:22 What if God, even though willing ( desiring ) to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known , endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared (G2675) for destruction? My thoughts - "God's making of a vessel is not the same as a vessel being prepared for something." Barnes – “This word (G2675) properly means to “restore; to place in order; to render complete; to supply a defect; to fit to, or adapt to, or prepare for. In this place it is a participle, and means those who are suited for or “adapted to” destruction; those whose characters are such as to deserve destruction , or as to make destruction proper. It is a simple declaration that they were in fact suited for it , without making an affirmation about the manner in which they became so. My thought – “It is very important to note that this verse, unlike the proceeding one does NOT say that the LORD “prepared” them for destruction, rather that the vessels of wrath were suited for it i.e. they were deserving of it.” Rom 9:23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy , which He prepare d (G4282) beforehand f or glory , G4282 pro-et-oy-mad'-zo From G4253 and G2090 ; to fit up in advance (literally or figuratively): - ordain before, prepare afore. G2675 kat-ar-tid'-zo From G2596 and a derivative of G739 ; t o complete thoroughly , that is, repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust: My thoughts – “ G4282 in Rom 9:23 could be translated, ‘which He beforehand made ready for glory. G2675 in Rom 9:22 could be translated, ‘vessels of wrath suited for destruction. G4160 is not the thought in verse 22 or 23. The vessels of wrath were NOT made for destruction; rather they were suited for it. Neither were the vessels of mercy made for glory; rather they were fitted for it beforehand i.e. they were made ready for it ahead of time . Eph 2:10 ESV For we are his workmanship, created " in Christ" Jesus for good works, which God prepared (G4282) beforehand , that we should walk in them. My thoughts - We were fitted ahead of time so that we should walk in good works.” Rev 19:7-8 ESV Let us rejoice and exult and give Him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His Bride has made herself ready (G2090) ; (8) it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? My thoughts – “I think this just further drives the apostle's point home. The Jews were not the only people who were beforehand fitted for glory. No, the Gentiles also had been made ready for glory ahead of time.” notes
Arc
2011-11-16 08:32:42
2014-12-10 18:24:44
editing
Romans
Romans 9:13-24
NT
esv
As it is written ,
"Jacob I loved,
but Esau I hated."
negativepositive
ideaexplanation
(Therefore), what shall we say? Is there injustice on God's part?
By no means!
questionanswer
inference
For He says to Moses,
"On whom I have mercy,
I will have mercy
actionresult
and on whom I have compassion,
I will have compassion."
series
So then it depends not on
human will or exertion,
but (rather it depends) on God,
who has mercy.
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,
"For this very purpose I have raised you up,
that I might show my power in you ,
and that my name might be proclaimed
in all the earth."
locative
actionpurpose
So then, on whomever He wills
He has mercy,
and whomever He will
He hardens.
alternative
(Yet) you will say to me then,
"Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?
(nobody)
Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
(no)
Has the potter no right over the clay,
to make out of the same lump
one vessel for honorable use
and another for dishonorable use?
(of course, he does)
(Even though G1161) desiring to show His wrath
and to make known His power
What if God, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath,
prepared for destruction,
concessive
in order to make known the riches of His glory
for vessels of mercy,
which He has prepared beforehand for glory--
temporal
even us
whom He has called,
not from the Jews only
but also from the Gentiles?
bilateral
discourse
10000000095362 95362 Arc 2011-11-16 08:32:42 2014-12-10 18:24:44 editing Romans 9 13 9 24 Romans 9:13-24 45 NT esv i540180 i540181 i540182 i540183 i540135 As it is written , i540184 i540136 "Jacob I loved, i540137 but Esau I hated." negativepositive 2 1 ideaexplanation 1 i540185 i540138 (Therefore), what shall we say? Is there injustice on God's part? i540139 By no means! questionanswer 2 inference 2 i540186 i540187 i540140 For He says to Moses, i540188 i540189 i540141 "On whom I have mercy, i540142 I will have mercy actionresult 2 i540190 i540143 and on whom I have compassion, i540144 I will have compassion." actionresult 2 series ideaexplanation 1 i540191 i540192 i540145 So then it depends not on i540146 human will or exertion, series i540193 i540147 but (rather it depends) on God, i540148 who has mercy. ideaexplanation 1 negativepositive 2 inference 2 i540194 i540195 i540149 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, i540196 i540150 "For this very purpose I have raised you up, i540197 i540151 that I might show my power in you , i540198 i540152 and that my name might be proclaimed i540153 in all the earth." locative 1 series actionpurpose 2 ideaexplanation 1 i540199 i540200 i540154 So then, on whomever He wills i540155 He has mercy, actionresult 2 i540201 i540156 and whomever He will i540157 He hardens. actionresult 2 alternative inference 2 series i540202 i540203 i540158 (Yet) you will say to me then, i540159 "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" ideaexplanation 1 i540204 i540205 i540206 i540160 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? i540161 (nobody) questionanswer 2 i540207 i540162 Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" i540163 (no) questionanswer 2 i540208 i540209 i540210 i540164 Has the potter no right over the clay, i540165 to make out of the same lump ideaexplanation 1 i540211 i540166 one vessel for honorable use i540167 and another for dishonorable use? alternative actionpurpose 2 i540168 (of course, he does) alternative i540212 i540213 i540214 i540215 i540169 (Even though G1161) desiring to show His wrath i540170 and to make known His power series i540216 i540171 What if God, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath, i540172 prepared for destruction, ideaexplanation 1 concessive 2 i540173 in order to make known the riches of His glory actionpurpose 2 i540217 i540218 i540174 for vessels of mercy, i540175 which He has prepared beforehand for glory-- temporal 1 i540219 i540176 even us i540177 whom He has called, ideaexplanation 1 i540220 i540178 not from the Jews only i540179 but also from the Gentiles? alternative bilateral 1 questionanswer 2 1 1 1 esv 25 a 50 discourse
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